SEO Trends and Takeaways of 2020 from Pubcon

Every year SEO’s from around the world descent in Las Vegas for Brett Tabke’s PubCon conference. This year too the annual PubCon conference was a major success with some major SEO announcements coming out during the conference. At BobCast, we thought we would bring a special bonus session focused on SEO and invite PubCon veteran and US Search Awards judge Bill Hartzer to discuss some of the major developments to come out of PubCon conference 2019 and what SEO’s can plan for in 2020.

In this bonus episode focused on SEO, we will discuss:

  • How to proper site migrations with some do’s and dont’s
  • Major announcements around SEO link building disavows and disavowing
  • Google’s Gary Ilyes keynote presentation points
  • Major announcements around Google Knowledge Graph
  • Insider tips on wow to win at US Search Awards
  • SEO initiatives for 2020

SEO Trends and Takeaways of 2020 from Pubcon


Our Guest Speaker for this Episode:

carey-green
Bill Hartzer

Bill Hartzer is the Founder & CEO of Hartzer Consulting, who has been practicing SEO since 1996. Bill Hartzer is a known SEO face having spoken at major SEO conferences, written on major publications and is an official judge at US Search Awards. Learn more about Bill at https://www.hartzer.com


Transcript of this podcast

Bob Tripathi: All right folks welcome. This is Bob Tripathi with Digital Sparx Marketing what we thought will do today is we will do a quick SEO review, especially after the recent Pubcon conference which is the largest search marketer SEO conference right now in the industry and we will also talk about a little bit of SEO in the new year in 2020 and what a SEO should focus on. And so I thought I would invite someone who has been there done that and for many many many years. So Bill Hartzer. So Bill welcome. Welcome. And yes if you can real quick introduce yourselves to our audience that would be great. And then we can just jump right in.

Bill Hartzer: Sure. I’m Bill Hartzer and I have been doing SEO Since you know that before we even had Google and and was creating Web pages and using search engines to get traffic back in the 1990s late 1990s and I’ve kind of seen the whole evolution of the industry to where we are now and I’ve started out in-house doing as SEO and webmaster duties and I kind of moved to the agency world and kind of worked up through the you know through the ranks from you know SEO to SEO manager, director, vice president. So forth senior vice president and then for the past several years I’ve been out with my own consulting and I’m only doing SEO audits and some expert witness work in the legal fight over what lawsuits and legal issues that have come up.

Bill Hartzer: But primarily I focus right now on technical SEO audits websites

Bob Tripathi: Nice fun fun I love those old days to be used to use words like webmaster search visibility you know those are like the old nomenclature right back in the day. But I know that Pubcon which is big a lot of things come out, we had Google’s Gary Illyes. Yes. How do you say Illyes not Gary.

Bill Hartzer: Gary Illyes.

Bob Tripathi: I think you mentioned it’s a little tricky but I think it spells I l why he is so he is silent. Good to know. But I know Google’s Gary was there. Gary Illyes. And a lot of other luminaries. So what we should do is let’s do a quick review of all the big takeaways from Pubcon this year. And what were your takeaways.
Let’s start with number one

Bill Hartzer: No I think there’s a lot of you know there was a lot of talk in a lot of different areas. You know I focused primarily on the SEO side of things. I didn’t really get a lot of you know a lot of lot of info on the pay you know on the paid side of things. But as far as SEO goes you know goes where a lot of a lot of talk about entities and you know entity SEO and the Knowledge Graph and everything from you know content and certainly schema as well as scheme markup but I also noticed that there was a question in a couple areas that you know about Google Amp and whether or not you know SEOs are now or are recommending you know a based. Simply what I gathered with talking to a lot of the other speakers was that I’m a lot of people are not recommending Google AMP anymore that for sites and typically is good for publishers but you know generally speaking we want them to visit the Web site. So I think if you asked that same question about Google AMP and for example last year people SEOs were still recommending use users usage of Google app. But in fact this year changed where a lot of SEOs are not recommending Google app anymore.

Bob Tripathi: Nice and I think there was a lot of talk around improper Web site migrations too. Right. I guess I still you know just be baffles me when people still create those micro sites and then you know you have like tons of other sites. But yes site migration has been always an issue right. Especially if you’re changing your brand or your domain name like for example I remember back in 2000 a tool something I used to work for Discover and we used to have this domain called Discovercard.com. But the company had bought discover.com for like 20 million dollars and nobody was using it. And then one day the I.T. and those folks they suggested oh we should switch everything to discover.com. And they were about to flip the switch. Right. And that’s when I come and I’m like No no no you just can do that. You know there is a site migration pre during and post things and today looking at 20 19 people still have the same questions that you face 20 years back. So what are some of the discussions around site migrations and what did you hear and things like that.

Bill Hartzer: Well I think the biggest tenant you know are some technical issues you know where a lot of sites will have. You know they’ll move to the new then the new domain name but you know the old one is now redirected or you know the moving from a HTTP to HTTPS Yes they may not you know fully implement a HTTP. Well do the change but maybe they won’t change all of the internal links on the site to point to HTTPS and so when the site loads you get mixed content warnings and you know where the images load on a HTTP and the and the rest of the page loads on HTTPS. Yes and you get mixed signals and so forth and that can lead into some issues but yes. So there’s definitely when you do this on my side migration from one domain to another there’s all sorts of different considerations. And you know there’s probably even at the same time you can combine that with there’s probably all the outdated content that does not need to be moved. That could be that could be killed off for or just don’t we’re not redirected. And so there’s you know it’s not just you know may change in the domain name, I think there’s a lot more involved in that whole in that whole process.

Bob Tripathi: Right I remember like you know I actually met up with Matt Cutts the old Google SEO czar if I may. And this was that as it makes advance and obviously you wouldn’t answer a question otherwise but because I was working in a big brand and he was accessible to so I asked him about does and he’s like you know go and take piecemeal content so take some content more to see how it is that the engines get used to it then move the other side of content. And I think he gave good advice and I think you know I don’t know if you remember but he used to carry those small black pocket diaries and then he wrote it down. But yeah I think you’re right in terms of the technical side of what website migrations though people are just killing it and flipping the switch according to you. What should be the timeframe when they do that.

Bill Hartzer: That’s a good question. I think it depends on how large the site is. And you know how I mean you know for us a Web site that is just a small business that may change your domain name you know less than 100 pages you know it may it may be just fine to move and you know and make sure everything all the redirects are set up and so forth. But when we get into the thousands of pages hundreds of thousands of pages that you know that the site has a lot of links and so forth and it could be a much much more difficult task to plan out. And then it also depends on you know the domain name that you are moving to that you know if it’s a domain name that has nothing to do with that or maybe it had prior content on it that was a different topic. And so that can be an issue you know if the search engines think you know even if you buy that you know buy a new domain name and you know and it had a different topic content on that domain. Sure you would want to move or actually move some content or actually just create some new content on the new topic first before you actually do the full migration.

Bill Hartzer: So make some landing pages, get it indexed.

Bill Hartzer: You know maybe get some links to a couple of things to just to Mesh where that the search engines first know that it is you know what what the new topic is. And I’ve seen some disasters over the years and that you know that that when they when they move someone and bought a domain name that was not another topic and they just moved everything over and they just immediately lost all their rankings because all the former topic of the Web site was completely a different industry. And so there’s you know there’s there’s changes like that when I you know perfect example is when I was my Hartzer.com in the early 2000s that Hartzer.com, I have always found it but we I had content on there about dogs and puppies and because we were raising Labrador Retrievers and you know what. And I made a decision to after several years to move you know to move content over to that domain and make it about digital marketing. And so it is completely different topic. So what I did is I actually for about two to three years I put a no index on it and made sure Google did not did not index it. And it was out of the search engines for you know for a couple of years and then I slowly at first added some content about Digital marketing on it and then after six months or so then I moved the you know moved much more content over to it.

Bill Hartzer: It was kind of a process but if I had you know, if suddenly it was a domain about dogs and then I you know immediately instantly moved over you know to made it all of a sudden digital marketing content then you know I would have There would have been much more different change. And so you know that if I if it was moving to that domain there would have been a loss and rankings. So you know it is it is there and that’s only because the content was so different from what it was originally on the domain to another. Another type of content. Typically there’s not a problem if the domain was a parks domain or if it was a domain that was you know there was never really used or did not have any content or if it or if it’s a brand new, a brand new domain. I know sometimes what I have seen is somebody will you know register a brand new domain and that has never been registered before. And so it is Google sees it as a brand new domain. Well you would definitely want to redirect an old domain to that new domain and move your content as long as you have the redirects from the from the old domain to that new domain then everything should transfer over and you know the into you know the the search engines will see those redirects and transfer you know everything basically from the old domain to the new one. And that’s I do still recommend using the specifically using the Google change of address form as a part of Google search console. You know you basically verify the old domain and you verify the new domain. You set up the 301 redirects put in the change of address. Google will check to see if the 301 redirects are changed and then that will help with with moving everything over and much more efficient. If you verified both you. That is only if you are moving you have to move the home page the homepage of that domain to the other home page of that domain so you can you know. So if you just move partial content to you know to have but you have you’re not moving home pages then you cannot use a change of address form.

Bob Tripathi: Yeah I think the biggest takeaway for folks with the whole site migration is you’ve got to prep the engines you know by taking some. And then the piecemeal approach. I think those are the biggest takeaways and obviously in the back end you have to make sure that you are getting all the service settings that you mentioned some of it. Right. I think those are the three big takeaways that basically I recommend. And I think that’s what you’ve been hearing and Pubcon and in your experience too. So that’s great. Great. Great. All right. So let’s move on to the other things links are still a huge currency right Links still matter like for example just yesterday I was doing a little link audit on the company on a client site and you know they just moved on over and what we saw was this whole agency was part of the some kind of a link farm and you saw that there is a high spam score in terms of the links right. Because you know how it is with inflating links so your rankings inflate your stuck to their provider blah blah blah. But I think there were a lot of talk this year at Pubcon when it came to link this evolves and this evolving links and things like that.

Bob Tripathi: What are your takeaways?

Bill Hartzer: A couple of different things. You know it has been said that and even I Pubcon but also just right after that you know on several discussions about disavow and specifically that you know Google’s official stance an official position has been over and over and over again that you only need to disavow links that are shown in Google search console and you know you don’t need to you know they are you know they do provide you know they do provide away links that you are pointing to your Website a Google search console. Google really does not feel that you need to use third party tools.

Bill Hartzer: Google thinks that basically you don’t need to use you know majestic or Ahrefs or you know rank research tools or any of these other other tools in order to you know to do a link audit and that and especially disavowed that you would only need to disavow of links that show up in Google search console. There has been discussion of whether or not you know whether or not Google actually looks at those looks. They may show links in Google search console that they are already ignoring. If there are for example if you go into Google search console and your you know your Website is is. Yeah it is is a clean website and and you see a bunch of the old links in Google search console. They show up and you know like if there is someone doing negative SEO with or trying to do it with you know pointing adult links to your WebSite. And obviously if you’re not in an adult site you know those can look those links can look clearly like they are something that you should disavow. And we don’t know necessarily whether or not you know Google is already ignoring those things but you probably know I would say you if you don’t think it’s helping you. Mean do you think it’s a bad way. You should disavow it if it shows up in Google search console.

Bill Hartzer: I mean it’s.

Bob Tripathi: Well sorry I was just going to point out like it’s just a good hygiene discipline. All right. Like you have asked if you have your email list like how as marketers we should be also keeping our email list clean the same way links would go the same way it is you have to look at it from a hygiene point of view.

Bill Hartzer: Yes you can. I mean but you know even. But you know that with especially with you know a Google Penguin and some of their algorithms that you know Google does know the topic of a Website and they do know that you know one way link is is from an adult site pointing to a non adult site and you know they. I am pretty sure that they know you know the difference and they know the topics of links. And so if it’s off topic they probably are going to ignore that. There are links that show up in Google search console that are off topic and you know and and I believe they’re probably ignoring them and you probably don’t need to disavow them. But it’s you know sometimes it’s just good practice you know to you know to look at the links and disavow them. The problem is that there are so many Websites you know so many Web site owners that will disavow links that are actually good links and they’ll know that they don’t know but you know they don’t know better you they just don’t know better. Between you know a good link and a bad link . And honestly it’s even for me sometimes it’s difficult to determine if there are links even if you look at the Website you look at the link and some you know sometimes it could be difficult you know for for somebody to decide to decide whether it’s a good link or a bad link or you should leave it or disavow.

Bill Hartzer: But this thought about disavow you know when when you do disavow something and disavow a link Google has to crawl back particularly you know if you disavow that page it’s Linking to you you Google has to crawl that you are now and that you are all again in order to be able to see the link. So what you know and Google doesn’t crawl every single link every day so every page every day. So you know sometimes when you disavow it could be you know a couple weeks or six months before Google gets around and crawls that you know it gets around and crawls that page again and then figures out to disavow. So just because you just a vow does not mean that you know in two or three days everything will be fine because it takes you know it takes time for Google to see that you know to see the link and to disavow it.

Bob Tripathi: Yeah I mean I think that Google’s official position as you are like if you disavow a link is not going to impact your SEO rankings or something like that. Isn’t that the official position on it.

Bob Tripathi: I do think that’s not true because you know how that goes. Yes.

Bill Hartzer: So I think that it’s you know there are you know there are a lot of different. It depends a lot. I mean it depends on you know a lot of other factors that come into play. You know if you have a lot of really good links and you just disavow a few links then it may mean you may not see any rankings changes.

Bill Hartzer: But if you disavow you know you go in and disavow all your links in all your good links and you may see a drop in rankings.

Bob Tripathi: Yeah I mean that’s great. Great. Great. At the same time if you clean it up you reduce your spam score or what have you. It is going to have a positive impact in the long term. Right.

Bill Hartzer: I mean if you’re right it should. That is the theory.

Bob Tripathi: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And you know so I think without getting too much for those up in the details I think most site owners should go the basic route to do the right thing and they should be safe. That’s what I suggest folks. Now you mentioned earlier that Gary Illyes. Yes. The day that I butchered his name. Yes. You did this column. Gary Yes. Gary from Google. Yeah. This. Easy easy. So you mentioned Gary also talking about the knowledge graph and the recognizing authors and then as entities and you know what was his discussion on that about.

Bill Hartzer: Sure. So there’s a couple of things you know where I’m Jennifer in Jennifer swag sat down and interviewed Gary with some questions and those two things are one thing that he picked up that I picked up on that was interesting to me is that one of the things is this is a link in content. If I write an article and or a blog post and Google crawls that I’m not the first time that I have you know Google I’ve written it and Google has crawled it and they see the content.

Bill Hartzer: Well if three months six months down the road maybe you come to me and say hey you know can you add a link to this article or could you change this link to something else in that article and I go back to my editors I’ve changed the link in that article will change in the link in a piece of content can change what Google what Gary said was changing the link. And at any time changing it can can change the relevancy of that link. So let’s say you say I link out to Wikipedia but you come to me six months later so I would like you to stop you know not going to link to Wikipedia but can you link to my Website instead. Well that’s a change in the link. And the outgoing link and that can change your relevancy.

Bill Hartzer: The reason why I think Google Google our Gary brought that up. Is that you know there are there is a lot of link buying and there’s a lot of you know a lot of you know we’ll add links to old articles or something. Well what can happen is is that you know I think personally I think Google is watching that content and seeing the changes and links and if there are links changes they can identify you know that can help them identify well as it’s a paid link because as somebody buy a link on this page or or you know how why did the link change because when the author originally wrote that article you know they linked out to certain sources and they made certain links and if all of a sudden six months down the road three months or something the link those links changes you know that then there is something you know there’s something there that that you know Google can say hey you know why did this thing change. And that brings me over to authors and so the other point that that if we read you know the transcript that I think Marie Heinz did a good job of writing down everything that he said you know that I think she live blogged that that interview. Well what good what Gary said is that he made a distinction between authors and entities. And so if you are an author and you write a blog you write a blog post and you have your name that your byline that says this article is you know by you by Bill Hartzer. Well if Bill Hartzer is not an entity then and is just an author. Well Google may not recognize you know that that author. And they may not put much importance because you know that author wrote that article. They don’t may not care but the difference is when and the planning that you know that Gary from Google said was that when that author or that name is an entity then they will they they can. Make. Put a different weight on it. They they may look at that entity and say oh well Bill Hartzer wrote that article and we know that Bill Hartzer that author or that person is an entity and that entity is that part that person is also you know employed by this company. And this you know and we know that company name is an entity and that that the you know that entity is also a sort of stayed with this particular Website or any name.

Bill Hartzer: And that’s important because you know there’s author who writes an article but then there’s entity.

Bill Hartzer: And so when we think of entity entity can be a person you think of it as a person place or thing it’s a concept it’s you know. So you would have you know the Eiffel Tower or the Empire State Building that would be an entity and look you know a location can be an entity but then a company, a company name on a brand like digital sparks marketing that could be an entity if they know you know if there’s enough signals out there that to warrant that you know being an entity when we think of entities we also you know there also can be people like you know LeBron James or Britney Spears or celebrity name or or you know I know that you for example Bob you have as our author and you have a knowledge graph entry so well.

Bill Hartzer: So what I like to you what Google does and and you know there is the knowledge graph and the knowledge graph both Google and Microsoft Bing, Bing use the knowledge graph. And so as part of their search results and part of their essentially the algorithm to figure out. OK well Bob is an author Bill is an author. And each of those have a knowledge graph entry. There are ways to get a knowledge graph entry and I just happen to notice that when you do a search for my name there will be a separate knowledge graph entry. It shows a little bit about you and then it has people who you know who are other knowledge graph entries that are like you and I’ll show maybe your company name it shows here by a little brief bio it shows links to your social media on your Twitter, Instagram and Facebook or whatever linked in whatever you have. And then. So an author or entities can claim that you know a company and a person. So I’ve claimed my knowledge graph entry there is it. They call it the knowledge panel we do a search in Google for example.

Bill Hartzer: You know for your name Bob I notice that you have not claimed your knowledge panel yet and it’s a very easy.

Bill Hartzer: Oh yes.

Bob Tripathi: Thanks Bill for sending one more thing to do a thing on my plate.

Bill Hartzer: This was just an easy process but then you actually have control over what is shown there. And I know somebody who has a knowledge panel for them their name but they just left a copy of it was showing that they were a senior vice president and at this company well they last month they left that company so they and they have not.

Bill Hartzer: Claim their knowledge panel. So I told them yesterday I noticed that. So they are going to you know in the process is pretty simple you claim your knowledge panel you kind of you have to prove that you are you know the person who you know who or you know related to the company that is in the knowledge panel and you may have to take a copy of your driver’s license and email it to them or something like that to prove. But then once you once you have that claimed and it’s associated with your Google account.

Bill Hartzer: Then you can make suggestions.

Bill Hartzer: So you can’t go in and do it on the fly but you can go in and you can make.

Bill Hartzer: You can if you’re logged in, you can make a recommendation or edit and they will they will go in and and you someone from Google actually makes the change to your knowledge graph entry. I’ve worked with several celebrities in the past who have had bad data bad information on their on their knowledge panel one person one celebrity had their did not want their but their birthdate to be shown. They thought it was private data. And so they did not want their name and their birth date on there. So I worked you know we had to claim their knowledge panel and that they you know then they had to go wait and make that suggestion and Google went in and removed the birth date. But you know it only took twenty four hours. But yes. So it is possible.

Bill Hartzer: And but you know as I see those going forward in 2020 I’m seeing more indications more and more that you know that Google is paying attention to entities as well as an SEO. Sure we do need links.

Bill Hartzer: And I would still spend time doing you know doing link building but that doesn’t mean you know but I would also start to spend time doing what I call entity SEO, I think originally you know the person who said that you came up with that phrase was Dixon Jones and former CMO of of Majestic and he’s now CEO of inlinks.net and he’s written a lot about entity SEO and kind of the process. And basically it’s at the edges I guess you know is a sense in my opinion it’s it’s going in and getting your company your key officers your CEO or your CFO or whoever is going to be authoring your. On your site to get their name into the knowledge graph. And there are ways to do that obviously you know not necessarily the easiest way but that you like a Wikipedia entry you get yourself you get you if you’re in that way if you have a Wikipedia entry for your name then you probably are in the in the knowledge graph.

Bob Tripathi: Yeah yeah beautiful beautiful. So what I’m hearing is letting you move on to the next year. So that is what did you talk about 2020. I think that a few things I’m hearing for 2020 is of course the knowledge graph huge claim it because as a way to influence results and basically claim who you are and gives you credibility which is always.

Bob Tripathi: Good for SEO. The other thing that I think we talked about it a little bit is links they’re not going to go away. SEO should still focus on it. What should be what you what are you hearing in terms of 2020 where you should focus on in terms of links

Bill Hartzer: I mean I think that as far as links go. I mean we comes back to entity SEO because then you know you do have you did you know there are a lot of sources that used the knowledge craft for data. I think that you know that it like you know Wikipedia and you know and somewhat that is associated with it. You know. There are some there are know opportunities to do internal links. I think one thing that a lot of SEOs forget about is is the opportunity to do more internal linking on your own Website. And it’s not just you know ad linked to navigation or the footer but it’s actually adding you know relevant internal links in the middle of content in the middle of the sentence. You know if you have a blog post and you mentioned a product or service that you have or a keyword that you know to add a you know added add an internal link to the you know to the other page

Bob Tripathi: I got that’s the operative word here you used is relevant and then you are doing internal link optimization I think ensue it should focus on relevant linking to other pages and don’t spend it.

Bill Hartzer: Right. But you can use the exact match anchor text that you want and so forth and that can definitely. Definitely be a help.

Bill Hartzer: So you talk about entities. What about voice search in 2020. You know voice search has become like this mobile SEO which we used to have back in today. Mobile is coming it’s coming and it’s here voice search of any buzzer on voice search .

Bill Hartzer: Well I think there’s a couple of things I mean you know there’s there’s. I don’t think really that there’s. You know too much yet there’s not right now some real you know some really real big ways to optimize for voice search but there’s things that you can do like you know like doing a proper schema and there is you know there is voice there’s a voice related schema that you can add to your site. It does come into play. It does you know entities come into play when the voice search. Just a question of you know asking Google or Alexa Tell me about Bob and you know and if you are an entity and Google knows about you then they’ll give you some information as far you know the only part of you know voice search. You know I do I am a big fan of schema right now and and providing that markup that as can have some impact. But at the same you know. And then also providing content around people also ask and people also ask can lead into questions that people might ask on using voice search also. And so paying attention to that. That type of content and making sure you have that content. The other area is keyword research. And we can use it fairly easily distinguish between whether a query is. Is going to be or have some search volume with. With in voice search or not and so a lot of the search tools like I’ll use I SEMrush for example if you were to use SEMrush. Yeah look it’s doing some keyword research. If you were to actually do a search for the wake up phrase which would be for Alexa would be Alexa. But. But we actually if you say if you do a search a keyword search in SEMrush for. OK. Google which is the wakeup word. A lot of people actually use that wakeup word twice so I’ll say it once and Google will wake up and then they think Google is not responding. So they’ll say it again or the second time is when that is recorded as a keyword. So the second time along with the keyword is is ends up being the keyword. And so that’s reported. So if you go to if you go to SEMrush and you type in OK Google as a keyword and that’s actually the second time which is associated with you know like like OK Google what’s the weather or ok. Google weather that would be you know that’s that is actually going to report how many people per month search that keyword on voice searched particular. So you can actually do searches using the wakeup word and you can get some volume and you can actually search volume numbers and you can see whether or not that key whether or not people are actually searching using voice search for that keyword.And then you would you know and then you could spend some time there you know creating content around that you’re essentially around that voice search or in that result versus if there is no volume and nobody’s searching for you know OK Google what is SEO. And yeah in that case if there’s no one searching at this point you know you may not want to spend some time you may focus on some other keywords with more schema and voice schema and so forth.

Bob Tripathi: Nice. Yeah. And I think the topical content will never go out of fashion and it’s gonna be much more needed when it comes. So voice search and PAA and things like that. All right. So this is good. Bill great to round up so far. Before we wrap it up. Well how is this you search awards any winners that you want to give a shout out to or in just doing the search.

Bill Hartzer: Search awards you know we’re good this year. You know I think this is the fourth or fifth year or something like that that I been a judge. I think that you know the only thing that I can tell you is is that you know there’s you know we get more and more entries as a judge you know you know they’re I think we still need some more entries. There’s only you know a few sometimes three four or five entries and I’d like to see the judge I would like to see more companies participate. I think that there’s you know and and you know that way you know it makes it much more interesting certainly as a judge and for the competition and you know there’s always you know there’s always room for improvement in the entries. I think that you know if I keep on seeing unfortunately someone will put make an entry and they just don’t spend enough time describing what they did or why they should win. And you know and sometimes it can mean a big difference between winning an award. You know if you really put a lot of effort and time into into that entry versus somebody who just has one or two sentences about about about what they did versus somebody who set you know sits down and writes a couple paragraphs of screen captures and spends a lot of time that’s been you know an issue not you know in ever just about every category for for several years I think some you know sometimes you know SEOs are not writers and so yeah you know especially when it comes to awards. But if you can there’s somebody in your organization and you’re entering one of these kind you search awards whether it’s us or uk or you know. Yeah. And now they’re going to be going into Canada and some other locations. That’s the key to winning an award is putting together a really good entry.

Bob Tripathi: And you know the judges like that not using too many keywords.

Bill Hartzer: Yeah those are really there were really some standout members you know Aimclear is always doing well. And you know one SEO did win some awards this year. I have to mention OnCrawl because I’m an Oncrawl ambassador. They won one of the great One of the best best software suite or something. It’s something like that. And you definitely need to check OnCrawl. I use them I all my SEO audits and so yes. So basically you know there was a really great event and and you know hopefully I’ll be a part of it next year.

Bill Hartzer: Nice. This is good. Bill the great roundup I think so you know. And yeah. Thank you for the shout out to all the SEO pros in the industry and giving a shout out and taking the time and I know the best way to reach you is the Bill Hartzer on LinkedIn.

Bill Hartzer: I mean yes a rainy day and or just google my name and my latest tweets and Facebook posts and everything should be out there. I have my blog. BillHartzer.com and agency site Hartzer.com.

Bob Tripathi: Nice including your knowledge graph right. Yes. Bill thank you so much for your time and thank you folks for tuning in. And I’ll see you guys shortly watch out all other videos and podcasts as well. But this is Bob signing off. Thank you. OK. Thanks.

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